IndieRec Interview: Kenn Rowell of The Baghdaddios
By Dave DiSanzo
http://www.indierec.com

NYC's "The Baghdaddios" have been getting themselves quite a reputation for gutsy-gritty, real "NYC rock and roll" / melodic punk with biting lyrics. Their recorded music is given away for free. Their live shows are like the coolest high school party that you can remember. They organize benefit festivals and they are fully integrated in the incestuous indie music community within New York. They also have opinions galore. Hear what songwriter/guitarist/lead vocalist/harp wailer Kenn Rowell has to say about the music life after spending over a decade with his band. Kenn discusses his unique marketing tactics, the costs of doing business, and the state of the industry among other things.

IR: How long have The Baghdaddios been together?

KR: According to some ex-band members: "WAY too long!".......it actually IS staggering to think that we've been at it for over ten years. I started it while I was still going to school.....in the late Fall of 1992! Geez! I shudder when I say that: 1992? Did they have gasoline-powered cars back then? God, it seems SO long ago.......but really, time flies when you're an unsigned band........it's been a blast. Free beer and nachos........it's like going to high school with money!

IR: What keeps you together?

KR: Honestly? I can't speak for the others but there's NOTHING else I really love as much as writing and playing my own songs! I have to give the other guys credit for sticking with it for so long considering that they're playing MY songs and not their own. But then again they make their own contributions. Every one of our recordings has each band members indelible stamp on them. For instance: I can't imagine hearing "You Da' Man (Ferrall On The Bench)" without Paul's manic fills and cymbal crashes. The song wouldn't be the same without them and I'm sure he looks at the finished product and says "Yep, that's ALL mine!" (As a matter of fact, I KNOW he does!!!!)

IR: What affect has giving all of your music away for free had on your success?

KR: "Success" might be stretching it, Dave! But yeah, it's been a BIG boost to getting our name out there. Now, all of a sudden our name is popping up in places that we couldn't buy our way into at this time last year. Just yesterday our publicist did a net-surf check and found that we were mentioned in the Santa Monica Mirror. I'm getting e-mails now from all over the world and it's kind of interesting the feedback that we're getting. Just recently we had to issue a press release to answer some people who actually thought we came up with the band name to capitalize on the war. Really, I came up with it while sitting around with my best friend from college and watching the 1st Gulf War on CNN.........I've always been into word play (anyone who names their first CD "Willie Horton Hears A Who" or their newest disc "Autopsy-Turvy" would have to be, right?) and I kept hearing "Baghdad this" and "Baghdad that" and I took a swig of beer out of the bottle and blurted out "Baghdaddio" and we all cracked up. And then it took almost two years for me to start the band. But, no, we didn't roll out of bed in January, look at the New York Times front page and say "Hey, let's take advantage of THIS".......

Some people believe that they should always charge for their music and God bless 'em if they can get what they're asking. We're not some super-hyped band, we don't have anyone in our family pulling strings for us and we're far from being teen idols. We're just a blue-collar, lunch-pail kinda hard working band. We're also never going to be "media darlings". I'm funny at times but that's about it. We're all pretty much normal. So every ounce of recognition has come the old fashioned way: We've earned it bit by bit, inch by inch, mile by mile. After our first CD was out for 5 years I figured: "Hey, we've made about as much off of this as we're going to". We can hold onto it and say: "Pay us or else" and they can pass on us and move onto the 1-jillion other indie or unsigned bands out there and then what do we have. Just a box of CDs. On the other hand putting all 23 songs that we've recorded (one full length CD, a four-song EP, a 3-song "Punk Holiday Sampler", various out takes from the new recording sessions and even a rare "live" cut from C.B.G.B.s!) has helped get us a sort of name recognition that the best publicist in the world can only dream about! Someone from New Zealand downloaded all of our music off of the net, burned a bunch of CDs and started passing it out among her friends and now they're attempting to raise money to fly us over there for a series of shows! How cool is that? This doesn't even get beyond the 'talk' stage if they don't hear the music. The idea in any media industry is to get heard. Hey, we're getting heard. We've all got jobs so it's not like we need to get paid for playing music in order to live. There's always room for getting paid later - when we develop an even bigger following and maybe even get someone interested in putting our music in television shows or movies (hint, hint!).

Let me put it to you this way: In our first 10 years we scored ONE music festival. One. That's it. We've applied year after year and they all go: "Thanks for the 30 bucks 'entry fee'......NEXT". This year we're playing four outdoor music festivals! We also had a song selected for a cool indie film about aliens in a trailer park! This ain't no coincidence, Dave. Give away music? Hell, I'd do it in a heartbeat!

IR: How do you finance the band?

KR: There by the grace of a bi-weekly paycheck goeth I! I work for EMI, doing publishing royalties and I LOVE it! Most of the people there are involved in one sort of artistic project or another. All you have to do is turn over a rock at work and you find someone with a band, a management company, a script, a treatment, a demo.....you name it! And it's great being part of a creative and vital grass roots kind of community. Hell, the girl that discovered Norah Jones used to sit 2 cubicles down from me. And I find myself constantly playing my friends' music: TinCanTelephone, The I.O.s, Mike McGinnis (Between Green), R&B; singer Tavon, Geri, Into Red Giant......and these are JUST the people I work with! Most of them either have an official website or music for free download on MP3.com. And they're ALL great! One thing I love is the fact that we're all in this together. I KNOW that they go through the same stuff that I go through. Every dime I make goes into the band.......I've borrowed against my 401K plan, spent EVERY dime of my last several tax refunds and have sold an occasional old piece of equipment. Since I've moved to the City (a few years back) I've taken my car off the road so that will fetch a few grand on the open market. I use credit cards whenever I can. The cool part is that the last several years (in between CDs!) I've actually made a profit playing music! Not a lot, by any stretch, but again, we don't have to make a lot to live. I mean, I could be slaggin' away in a wedding band and making a couple thousand bucks a night. But I'd probably end up eating my gun before long. Nah......leave singing "Feelings" or the lounge version of "Rock 'n Roll All Night" to the guys who do it best. I would blow at that and I know it. But then again there's not to many people who can pull off "Fat Bastard" or "Neil's In Rehab" on stage.

IR: I understand that you have fans in New Zealand, Holland, and the UK. How have you been able to attract your fans from all over the world when you have not toured or released product in these locales?

KR: All you need is one over-zealous fan, your music and the internet and you would be surprised at what you can do! The thing about the internet is that, if you have it up for people to check out then, in affect, you HAVE released product in these areas. It's there and if you have someone local who is championing your cause you can actually have a foothold in that area which you can build on. The most important word in this biz is "yes". "Can you send us some CDs?" "Yes". "Can you send us stickers, t-shirts or do you have pictures of the band?" "Yes". "Would you be interested in coming here and doing some shows?" "Absolutely......we just have to raise the money". We had some friends down in Texas pay our way down last fall and I did a solo acoustic show at the "Ten Acre Jam" in Nacogdoches. It was a BLAST. They offered to pay for my flight.........I opted for a rent-a-car instead. It cost a little more, which I was happy to pay out of my pocket, but we got a chance to see a LOT of the U.S........we even saw Elvis' birthplace in Tupelo, MS! How cool is that??????

IR: What do you see as being your next big hurdle now that you have achieved a level of local success, and interest from areas outside the US?

KR: The way I see it every band goes through that period where they have some measure of local success and then, if they don't go to that ever-allusive "next level" (GOD, I HATE that phrase!) then everyone starts to get down on them-selves and the finger pointing begins ("Well, if you wrote good songs....Well, if you weren't so high during the show...If we only went to this other guy to mix our CD.....blah, blah, blah, AD NAUSEUM!"). You just have to have faith in your talent and understand that it might take the rest of the free world a little while to catch on to how good you are. This band could have stopped rolling any number of times during the 10+ years that we were at it. You can come up with a million reasons why we should stop: We've been at it for so long and haven't been signed yet. The "suits" stop looking at you after you're 28 years old and most of us are older than that. A friend of mine who fronted a band is friends with a very famous producer who's discovered some pretty big names. He called me a few months ago because he got a call from this producer who was all charged up because he was going to check out this band in New Jersey.......and it was fronted by "three male models". I almost puked. Hey, if you're looking for rock hard abs and six-pack rippling torsos then I guess we're NEVER going to get signed. But then again The Rolling Stones wouldn't have gotten signed either. The American music industry has the potential to really lead the way into the next century but sometimes that whole corporate "bottom line" philosophy can smother groups and music scenes before they even have a chance to produce the fruits. I mean, looking back, no one gave Norah Jones a snow ball's chance in hell.........I'm glad that she beat everyone's ass at the Grammys. Where are your slick teen-pop idols now, huh? A simple little jazz chanteuse blew you out of the water. What are we up to now, 9 million in sales? I didn't notice her hair was dyed pink, did I? And that's not to dump on Avril Lavigne or Pink by any stretch......what I'm saying is that there's room in this biz for ALL kinds of expression! That's what's supposedly so great about being an American: FREEDOM OF GOD-DAMN CHOICE!!!!!

So, I'll tell you right now: our biggest hurdle is staying positive and doing what we're doing despite the fact that a bunch of guys in trendy clothes with goatees are just trying to find the "next John Mayer" or the "next Norah Jones". Jesus! Why can't we just be grateful that we have ONE of each and let it go at that? I mean I was reading an article from the Times one day that was making the rounds at the office (the internet is a WONDERFUL thing!) and I saw how they were actually grooming some teen girls for superstardom. And they all were patterning their "act" after Britney and Shakira. Half a generation before their older sisters were trying to be the "next Alanis".......aping the same "grunge" style of dress and doing the whole "emotive" thing. Now it's getting dance routines down. Now that Britney's latest CD tanked and the boy band thing has pretty much peaked I bet these Stepford-teen-idols' heads are about ready to explode. "What? You mean I have to learn how to sing JAZZ now???" It's really SO pathetic. How about this, guys? Find what you do best and stick to it. I fell in love with my sister's British invasion records and later the whole punk thing when I was a kid. The Baghdaddios have actually lived through TWO "punk" trends. Yes, I was (and still am a Nirvana fan) and yes I've worn flannel on stage. Still do. If it's cold out. Don't be afraid to cross different music styles and to try and mix it up a bit. But do what comes natural. I can write catchy melodies. I just like to play most of them at warp speed and turn up the amps sometimes. It's fun. It's SUPPOSED to be! When it stops being fun it's time to pack up the wagon and get the hell out. Sell insurance, make babies, move to the suburbs (or the Upper East Side) or whatever. But NEVER lose that ability to laugh and have fun. Without that you're dead in the water.

IR: What do you think the next five to ten years has in store for the recorded music industry - both at the indie-specialized level servicing a core, highly defined target group, and the five major players?

KR: The record industry has GOT to stop whining about digital downloading and learn how to make it work for them. Period. The future is here now. The technology is out there. You can't squash it........it'll only drive the down loaders further underground and will force them to find more inventive ways around the guard dogs. But make no mistake about it: pirating music is stealing. But what would make an otherwise responsible citizen want to resort to breaking the law? In my not-so-humble opinion I believe it's a direct response to the absolute raping that the public has taken at the hands of the entire industry, en masse!

The sad part is that many of these decisions were made by people who, for the most part, aren't even IN the industry today. Look, back in the day the labels use to charge top dollar for crappy cassette tapes with little-to-no inserts or graphics other than a generic cover. Then about 20 years ago they noticed that the sale of blank cassettes was in the BILLIONS. So THEN they started repackaging their product, gave us more liner notes, lyrics, inside pictures and even two albums per cassette packaging. Bonus tracks too! Then CDs were developed and it was time to take the public to the cleaners again. I can understand when they were just developing this technology why it would be so expensive......but look: the price of VCRs and pre-recorded video movies have gone down. The prices of CD players have gone down. How about CDs fellows? At first, in the early 90's it looked like it was heading that way. Some stores here in the City had new CDs retailing for $11.98......which was down from the original $15.98..........but now they're back close to $20.00! And for what? Who in their right mind would want to pay a double-saw-buck for a single surrounded by 10 or 11 mediocre-to-crap songs? And so an entire generation of people under 30 who grew up with a PC in their CRIBS are putting their well-developed computer skills to good use. Oh sure, a short-term solution would be to sue the balls off of everybody and prosecute/persecute them.....but all that's going to do is reinforce that "fat cat" image. EMI has taken steps to get a lot of their catalog up on line and while it may be a hassle right now (there's bound to be growing pains involved in this) I believe that this is instrumental to our long-term success. New artists, eclectic styles of music, creative packaging, utilization of available technology (DVD, the internet), discovering previously ignored niches, appealing to markets outside of the U.S., all of this and more is essential for the five players to weather this lousy economy, survive and continue to flourish. Hey, don't get me wrong I think I work for the greatest record company in the world! I mean: we have The Beatles! And now we have The Stones (on Virgin), the two greatest groups in many peoples' opinions (including mine!). Not to mention personal faves like Lenny Kravitz and Sean Lennon. And I see the company that I work for coming to grips with this ever-changing environment. Recently one of my bosses ran it by me: what would YOU do to reverse the industry-wide downturn in sales. Well, for starters, we're in an inflationary economy. A downturn is definitely understandable. The secret is to prepare for the future and, like it or not, downloading is here to stay. I'm actually brainstorming right now and trying to figure out what can be done to embrace the new technology without scuttling future CD sales. But, actually, I understand now more than ever how this new wrinkle can actually help the five major players. My band's publicist, Josephine, recently went on The Donna's website and was able to stream (not download) ALL the tunes off their newest CD. She liked so many of the tunes that she ended up buying the new CD. Similarly 6 or 7 years ago I was walking past the listening station in the local Tower Records and I heard this INCREDIBLE sound coming out of the headphones. Turns out that it was "The Mr. T. Experience". Great band. Since then I've gone to see them at the old Coney Island High, purchased other CDs of theirs and purchased a music compilation video that had one of their music videos featured on it. Think of it: by just being able to randomly check out all the songs on ONE CD I made the purchase and then became a big enough fan where I made several purchases in several other forms: ticket sales, CDs and music videos! This is the same thing that the entire music industry MUST strive for. No one WANTS to "get over" on the record company........they just don't want to pay $20.00 for a song or two. How about this: allow the public to custom make their own CD compilations or CD singles. Charge per song and include the downloadable graphics and liner notes free of charge. Who knows, maybe this is already in the works. I hope so because I love the people that I work with and I want to hang with them for as long as they'll let me.

IR: What do you most want to achieve with your band?

KR: In the end it's just knowing that when we shuffle off this mortal coil we don't want our obituaries to read: "Here lies ol' what's his name, he was a baker, a bus driver" or whatever.......we want them read: "He was a musician" or "He wrote THIS song".....I just feel in my heart that I can serve the planet best by writing my 'crappy three and four chord' songs. And if that's as good as it gets then that's fine enough for me.

I mean, hey, I started life as some clueless kid in suburbia.....I used to stand on the corner and wait for my Dad to walk up the hill from the Post Office.....I could always see his aluminum lunch pail first, reflecting the sun as it was starting to set. I was so far removed from everything. Then I can remember sitting in that Catholic grade school classroom.....tracing the script letters that were pinned over top of the blackboard with my eyes, counting the minutes and just wishing that I could be ANYWHERE on the planet but there. But I didn't know what I wanted to do. Oh I went through stages: astronaut, carpenter, president (oy!), baseball or football player. I remember the first time I told my parents that I wanted to be an actor or do funny movies and I thought Mom was going to bring in an exorcist! And childhood was SO miserable! You know, school bullies and I sucked at sports and I was WAY too thin-skinned about everything. And it always seemed like it was "bedtime". Ugh! And then one day I picked up a guitar and learned a couple of chords and it changed everything forever. The genie is out of the bottle and - try as you may - you can't stuff it back in! So don't even try. I love my life and regardless of whether I get "rich and famous" or not it doesn't matter. For a mailman's son from Nyack, New York I've been pretty damn lucky. Because of music I've discovered myself and what convictions I have and the price you have to pay for sticking to them. I've seen Elvis' birthplace, made friends on almost every continent, met Joey Ramone, hugged Richard Barone, jammed on stage with Joe D'Urso, had Patti Rothberg and Freddy over for wine and watched "The Fly" with them. I've met some of the most beautiful women in my life - women that wouldn't have even given me a second glance in high school - because I was able to have a conversation with them about music. I've helped organize benefit shows for A.I.D.s awareness and to raise blankets for the homeless and had the chance to watch some poor old lady's face smile when I handed her a blanket on a frigid Christmas Eve......basically all because I sang "Neil's In Rehab" and got all my friends to sing THEIR songs too! I've jammed out at C.B.s and The Hammerstein and the funny part is that I've barely scratched the surface. I remember years ago that I was an extra in the Howard Stern movie "Private Parts"........and all the other extras were bitching because we didn't get catered food like the "union" extras and the porto-toilets weren't as clean and blah, blah, blah! And I just said "Hey guys? This IS the reward. Just being a part of this and knowing that we were. I hope I never get over that kind of naive wonderment that I'm actually "here". What do we want to achieve? Man, we've already achieved it.

IR: Thanks Kenn!

To get some of The Baghdaddios' music http://www.mp3.com/the_baghdaddios and to learn more about them visit their web site at http://users.bestweb.net/~bagthis/.